adopt & introduce issues (HELP please)

[nirre]

Hi, I have a 9yo male chin (Poogie), who lost his brother (Boogie) alittle more than a year ago, since then he got extra attention from the wife & me, his chinparents. Recently we thought he might need another same-species-company and so we rescued a chin 5yo male (Chilly) yesterday. When we went to pick up Chilly from a house that almost looked like a hoarders, and the chin cage was dirty and pee-stain on half the floor, we couldnt turn back and had to rescue him. We brought him to us, use only half that cage (still almost 3x3x3' in size...temporary ofcourse), supercleaned it, fed him proper oxbow hay & pellets, he got few rounds of Poof bath. The owner said he was an xmas gift and seems like he's been treated like one too.

Chilly has never been with another chin b4, always been with humans only.

Yesterday night, we let him run around our room to get to know the place, he is still alittle shy of us. Our Poogie wanted out but didnt let him at the same time. He got out after hilly went back in cage, but then Poogie acutally sprayed urine on Chilly's cage. Today twice we lt them out same time, but everytime they get close to each other they make the aggressive defense sounds and jumpkick at each other, during their 2nd meet, Poogie even sprayed urine on Chilly. This was very sad for us to see, and unexpected. I have read that dominance is an issue, but also that urine from male is seldom, but that it may be that Poogie was THE chin in our house and wants to keep it that way.

I know one day is not much, but strong behaviour from Poogie shows that he seems not interested in having Chilly around at all. Chilly even seems to show signs of fear and submission, yet Poogie is still aggressive towards him. Our initial plan was to just borrow him from the owner and give him back if it didnt work out, but handing him back to that house is out of the question, that would be animal mis-treatment, but them in this situation is too. We really feel terribly sorry for Chilly, we dont know his background (doesnt seem like a great one), and now being in a new home, new smells & sounds + a chin (Poogie is long-tailed, Chilly is short-tailed), us, there is alot for this poor fellow to take in. He is in a better home, and we would make him happy, but the situation between the 2 of them is not good. We might have to hand him to a shelter who hopefully can hand him to a better home, but even this thought is heartbreaking

Any suggestions? Any ideas are helpful.

[piratesmom]

Mhhh, well the first thing is, that I actually never heard from male Chinchillas spraying ... so my fist thought was, if you are really sure, Poogie is a boy? That happens so, so often
that even pet shops or rescuers tell people the wrong gender. Many of them live in this believing until they find Baby Chins in a cage.

Between boys, some humping and checking out the rank order would be normal, but what you write does not sound so good.
On the other hand, that was really, really fast, that you tried to introduce them, so maybe with some time, there could be a chance.

First of all, especially because Chilly comes from such a terrible home, I would give him muuuuuuch time to get used first to a new home, new surrounding, new sound, new cage, new humans ... and tons of love in addition!!
Of course that would mean for you, that you will get used to him, if it will work later with Poogie or not, but is this so important? After all you wrote I would wish this little guy a real
chance in a good home. Maybe think about, if you could be his forever home, even if he should need a single cage.

It's so hard to say, what's going on in Chinchillas minds!! Some almost killed each other and became friends then suddenly from one day to the other (Jamies house). Some lived together peacefully for 3 years
and just after some new Chinchillas joined the group, the old Chinchillas suddenly started to fight (my house). So, you never know. I also have to live with two groups now and this makes outrun time complicated, but
it's possible.

But there are some things people recommend to introduce Chinchillas:

First of all, like I said, give them time. You can start with the cages near to each other (not that near, that they could reach each other through the bars). In your case, maybe not even near enough to spray.
Try this for some days or weeks, look how they react with some time to get used to each other. You can do the cages always a bit nearer with time. After a while you could try, to let Poogie visit Chillys cage and vice versa, alone of course. It's just for getting used to the others smell.
Outrun together should be much later in a little room, where you can supervise them easy. A little humping is okay, but if it becomes too aggressive, you will have to part them immediately.

Some people say, it helps to do some smell in their fur, like vanilla oil, but I did not try this myself. Inside a cage the old Chinchilla will always feel superior. Here it can help, to change
the setup, change the position of some shelves for example and clean it with 50/50 water/white vinegar, to remove all smells. So for both Chinchillas it would be like a new cage.
That's what I remember right now about intros.

I would wish you peace in your home, Poogie a new brother and
Chilly some love and luck in his life!!


Please keep us updated!
Ilka

[Jamie]

I agree with everything that Ilka wrote
and I also have never heard of a male chinchilla spraying

if he just peed then that can come from extreme nervousness..but it wouldn't "spray"
only females spray, a male cant even if it wanted to cause of how they are "built"

Please check to make sure one isnt female cause if it is then we have a whole range of other issues
as you know

I wanted to say thank you for rescuing him and showing that love is possible
and we will help you all we can to make this a great situation

bonding takes time and tons of patience. In my home even knowing the best techniques
it was very hard to get 7 chinchillas to live with each other , to bond

but after 7 months, 7 days a week , 20 minutes a day, a few emergency visits to the doctor after fights
or chinchillas running into things my house is like a fun house for all

sometimes it doesnt work out... but many times you just have to give plenty of time

especially if a chinnie has been mistreated before

Jamie

[nirre]

Wow, u both r right. when we rescued Poogie & Boogie (who has past away), we were told they were both boys, and when u dont think about it, it really looked like it too, thinking they were alittle different never made me realize this. Only took 9 years and the rescue of a male chin to find out my Poogie is a girl, not a boy, not sure if I should feel ignorant or like an idiot.
Luckily, the urban dictionary says Poogie means someone is cute & cuddly. I started making all the connections now from experiences between her & her brother and it makes sense. He did try to hump her, the way he cleaned himself between his legs was way different than Poogie, and they never had any kits so that was also a reason not to take note of it.

I got 2nd half of Chilly's cage cleaned so he has 2 large floors now with tunnels & house, so he has started to get comphy with me & the ze wife. I guess Poogie and Chilly might not meet, cause we're not interested in breeding. As things are atm between Chilly and Poogie, they come out in turn, their cages are about 3 feet from each other, I dont let Poogie get close to the cage as she even tries to urinate on that from the outside. Chilly is a gentle soul he rests alot more, most likely due to what he's been through (all his life) and this weekend, finally gets to rest and do as he pleases. I will take my time, but we'll see, if he gets content on being here, he will stay here

[piratesmom]

LOL ... now I had to laugh how you write this! So Poogie is a girl. But even when she is a beautiful girl,there is no reason to feel ignorant or worse ... that happens
so often with Chinchillas really! You just had amazingly luck, that she and her brother never got kits.
Did you go to a vet or breeder to really check the gender?

Well, so since they now anyway should not be together, I hope they both have peace to enjoy all the
human love you can give them. I would be happy, if Chilly nevertheless found his fur-ever home!


Ilka

[nirre]

When I think of it, I'm surprised they never got kids either.

Chilly will stay with us even if they are not compatible, he is such an adorable boy, how could I split from him now? It really only took that first weekend and now I'm too attached to him, so he will b living here till he retires